Xiphias Gladius ([info]xiphias) wrote,
@ 2007-02-01 15:22:00
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On how knowledge dissipates fear
One reason I wouldn't have panicked about Lite-Brites maybe being bombs is because, when I was a kid, my friends and I blew shit up.

That sort of gives me a feeling for how explosions work. If someone suggested that those Lite-Brite ads hanging around Boston were bombs, I'd look at them, and realize that there's just not that much explosive you could pack into them. They're just not big enough.

Oh, you could certainly injure, or, if you were VERY lucky, kill someone. You could maybe pack as much explosive in there as you have in a grenade. Of course, they were generally high up, so they weren't close enough to ground level to have significant concussive impact, but if you had shrapnel, you could do some damage.

Still, not enough to worry about.

Could they damage the bridges? Only if they were very carefully placed shaped charges. And those probably wouldn't have a Lite-Brite on them.

So, I guess that one major problem that this country has is that too few people have grown up doing dangerous stupid shit. Because, when you grow up doing dangerous stupid shit, you actually end up with a better idea of risk assessment. And a better idea of what actually can and cannot be done.

Um. Those of us who survive, I mean. Danno did blow his thumb off, but they found it and reattached it. And Rusty got pretty severe burns on one leg. But other than that, we didn't have any serious injuries that I remember.

But, well, if you grew up knowing how to make pipe bombs, it gives you a certain, I don't know, comfort level with the idea of pipe bombs and other improvised munitions. You get a feel for what can be done, and what can't be done. And so you can look at things and get a feel for, if they DO happen to be bombs, whether they're bombs worth worrying about.

Plus, if you've played with Lite-Brites, that would also have helped in this case.



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[info]tongodeon
2007-02-01 09:01 pm UTC (link)
That's basically how I feel about guns. I grew up around a lot of guns and I've had a lot of experience not just shooting but cleaning, reloading, appraising, etc. I'm *careful* around guns, the way that you're careful around big bags of black powder I guess, but I don't go bananas about guns in the way that many of my friends do when the subject comes up. I understand them.

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[info]fibro_witch
2007-02-01 09:17 pm UTC (link)
Yet, I who got to go through so much training before and after 9/11. Who knows so much more about what can be done today, as opposed to yesterday.

I was an onsite person in the Wallingford anthrax scare, and use to have a class 2 - level B response license. I saw those exact same things you did, and I would have acted the exact same way the city did. I know what this stuff can do. And I know how small charges have to be today to do damage.

I never made pipe bombs as a kid. I made them as an adult. A little knowledge is a great thing, more knowledge means more responsibilty.

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[info]the_axel
2007-02-03 03:43 am UTC (link)
So did you get trained in the theoretical potential of explosives or actually build, emplace & explode the devices, in hostile environments?

I ask because the difference between the theoretical capability and actual practice by terrorists using explosives is massive.

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[info]fibro_witch
2007-02-03 03:14 pm UTC (link)
It is a 72 hour class, a total of 2 weeks, 8 hour days. I did not learn how to make a bomb. - sadly -

This was a multi part class, we learned everything from how to deal with an exploding hazardous material on site, to a plane falling from the sky on to my facility. We also talked about someone releasing an infectious agent on site. What kind of agents could be used, what to look for.

For bombs, we covered the different types of explosives available. Samples were brought in, both deactivated bombs, and dummies items set up to distract bomb squads. Processes were reviewed, including the idea of setting up large numbers of dummy bombs, or fake bombs, something with lots of lights to attract attention from the public, and draw out the bomb squads.

I learned that most bombs are never called in. Most 'bombers' do not want to warn their victims. After all, the do not consider the people they are bombing to be worthy of life. We spent more time talking about home based terrorists. The hard core religious right, the abortion clinic bombers, the people who go 'postal' The class covered things like factory explosives, say due to a build up of vapors, or dust. And we spent a lot of time of natural disasters, like hurricanes, tornado and the like.

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[info]tylik
2007-02-01 09:38 pm UTC (link)
"So, I guess that one major problem that this country has is that too few people have grown up doing dangerous stupid shit. Because, when you grow up doing dangerous stupid shit, you actually end up with a better idea of risk assessment. And a better idea of what actually can and cannot be done."

Without regard to the current situation (which I've mostly not been following) I agree very much with this statement in general.

And am heartily amused that I general made it with respect to the magical community.

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[info]tigerbright
2007-02-01 09:43 pm UTC (link)
[info]bridgetminerva points out that in bomb-spotting training, batteries and wires are two of the three criteria.

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[info]anhelometuo
2007-02-01 11:12 pm UTC (link)
What's the third?

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[info]tigerbright
2007-02-02 02:29 am UTC (link)
Ask her?

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[info]msmidge
2007-02-02 03:11 am UTC (link)
Probably a timing device.

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[info]desperance
2007-02-01 11:10 pm UTC (link)
Did Danno's thumb work as well after reattachment, as it had before separation? (I've always wondered about this...)

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[info]xiphias
2007-02-01 11:12 pm UTC (link)
Dunno. It's not like he was terribly coordinated beforehand.

Really, though, yeah, it seemed to be fine afterward. Like, a month or two afterward.

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[info]voltbang
2007-02-02 12:06 am UTC (link)
I could conceptualize a wicked explosive device that would fit in the format that I have seen. In order to place it high up like many of them were placed, the design would have to take angle of attack into account, and might work better with a little more depth, but it's not difficult. Think claymore. A claymore isn't much bigger than those things, and replacing some of the ball bearings with the working bits of a lite-bright wouldn't make it any friendlier.

Seems more like an issue of failure to coordinate than inappropriate response, as I meditate on it. Someone placed wierd objects around the city in high traffic areas, with electrical power. Ok, that warrants investigation. But the same objects were located in a dozen other cities, and had been placed there by big business. Somewhere there shoulda been a memo that popped up when they flagged a major freak out in response to the itmes.

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[info]sethg_prime
2007-02-02 01:16 am UTC (link)
If something the size of a Lite-Brite were packed with thermite, attached to one of the supporting struts of a bridge, and set off, what kind of damage could it do to the bridge?

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[info]wargoddess
2007-02-02 02:09 am UTC (link)
Actually, I just took a class on spotting IEDs and I can tell you with somecertainty that enough explosives to blow the bridge straight to hell could have been packed in those things. The trick is in using the right explosives.

The fact of the matter is that only a complete retard would make a bomb from something so obvious. IEDs are always made of common objects taht you would never notice.

The whole thing is really stupid and I am so sick of hearing about it in the media.

>^,^< ,

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